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Thumber
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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 10:15 am    Post subject: Using Grass to test the wind Reply with quote

Just saw on DGCR that, technically, you are not allowed to rip up live grass to test the wind. "Technically" its the same as breaking branches. Automatic 2 stroke penalty and potential DQ from the tourny.

Chuck Kennedy admits the way the rules are written is what creates this situation. Most people would never call something like this but i can imagine certain jackasses trying to call it.
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Jefrey A. Brother
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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 10:17 am    Post subject: Re: Using Grass to test the wind Reply with quote

Thumber wrote:
Just saw on DGCR that, technically, you are not allowed to rip up live grass to test the wind. "Technically" its the same as breaking branches. Automatic 2 stroke penalty and potential DQ from the tourny.

Chuck Kennedy admits the way the rules are written is what creates this situation. Most people would never call something like this but i can imagine certain jackasses trying to call it.


BS. This is ridiculous.
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Thumber
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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 10:18 am    Post subject: Re: Using Grass to test the wind Reply with quote

Jefrey A. Brother wrote:
Thumber wrote:
Just saw on DGCR that, technically, you are not allowed to rip up live grass to test the wind. "Technically" its the same as breaking branches. Automatic 2 stroke penalty and potential DQ from the tourny.

Chuck Kennedy admits the way the rules are written is what creates this situation. Most people would never call something like this but i can imagine certain jackasses trying to call it.


BS. This is ridiculous.


I kid you not.
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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where in the rules could you "techinically" use this BS to call someone on it?
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Rolly
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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 10:23 am    Post subject: Re: Using Grass to test the wind Reply with quote

Jefrey A. Brother wrote:
BS. This is ridiculous.


I think Im going to find the dumbest of legal scenario's in the rules now for fun at work.
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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jefrey A. Brother wrote:
Where in the rules could you "techinically" use this BS to call someone on it?


Its the wording of the rule, the lawyers are at it.
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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rolly wrote:
Jefrey A. Brother wrote:
Where in the rules could you "techinically" use this BS to call someone on it?


Its the wording of the rule, the lawyers are at it.


Where in the rules could you "technically" use this BS to call someone on it?
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Thumber
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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jefrey A. Brother wrote:
Rolly wrote:
Jefrey A. Brother wrote:
Where in the rules could you "techinically" use this BS to call someone on it?


Its the wording of the rule, the lawyers are at it.


Where in the rules could you "technically" use this BS to call someone on it?


803.05 Obstacles and Relief section A, B, E & F plus section 3.3 (4) Player Misconduct.

Its "technically" the same as breaking branches and any other willful destruction of the course.......stupid and definitely a loophole, but some jackass will try to use it
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disco rico
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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andros is in trouble ...
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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jefrey A. Brother wrote:
Where in the rules could you "technically" use this BS to call someone on it?

803.05 F.
The PDGA in All its Wisdom wrote:
A player who purposely damages anything on the course shall receive two penalty throws, without a warning, if observed by two or more players of the group or an
official. The player may also be disqualified from the tournament, in accordance with Section 3.3 of the Competition Manual.

Ripping out the grass is willfully damaging the grass on the course.
Of course, the inevitable argument is that stepping on the grass is willfully damaging as well.
Too bad they can't simply write a nice clear rule, like "players may not test a feature of the course or the course environment by brushing, picking, pushing, or otherwise altering said feature, or any other feature of the course."

I'd relish a rule like that. A similar rule exists in bolf, where you are forbidden from testing the surface of a green. You can walk on it, but you can't brush it with your hand.
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Last edited by burjwahzeh on Mon May 07, 2012 10:46 am; edited 1 time in total
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andros
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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

disco rico wrote:
Andros is in trouble ...


laughing Yep. Love checking the wind.

May have to go back to using my towel as a wind sock.
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Jefrey A. Brother
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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

andros wrote:
disco rico wrote:
Andros is in trouble ...


laughing Yep. Love checking the wind.

May have to go back to using my towel as a wind sock.


No you won't. This is an absolute attack on the rules and the persons who write them. You are not damaging the course by ripping some grass up.

Bourgie, your comparison to white ball isn't the same. Not allowing players to test the wind would be one the biggest mistake that the rule gurus could ever make. Understanding wind when playing DG is a skill.

This is a joke.
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burjwahzeh
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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have a look at 802.04 A.
The PDGA in All its Wisdom wrote:
A. During a round, a player shall not use any artificial device that may assist in making a
throw, except those devices that reduce or control abrasion to the skin (such as gloves, tape,
bandages, gauze, etc.) and medical items (such as knee and ankle braces, etc.). Items used to prevent slipping on the teeing surface are also allowed. A player is specifically prohibited from using any artificial device that changes the position of the disc in the player's hand or artificially lengthens any of the player's throwing levers (fingers, wrist, arm, shoulder, etc.). The use of devices which assist in determining distances over 10 meters , such as range finders and GPS devices are prohibited. Measuring devices such as a tape measure may be carried and used to determine distances 10 meters and less for the purpose of rules enforcement.
As I read this, you should be allowed to carry a string to use as a wind sock, or a weather vane, or an actual wind sock. There really is no need to pull out the grass.
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Jefrey A. Brother
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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone who uses the dirt to take the moisture off their hands would fall into the same BS "ruling".
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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

burjwahzeh wrote:
Have a look at 802.04 A.
The PDGA in All its Wisdom wrote:
A. During a round, a player shall not use any artificial device that may assist in making a
throw, except those devices that reduce or control abrasion to the skin (such as gloves, tape,
bandages, gauze, etc.) and medical items (such as knee and ankle braces, etc.). Items used to prevent slipping on the teeing surface are also allowed. A player is specifically prohibited from using any artificial device that changes the position of the disc in the player's hand or artificially lengthens any of the player's throwing levers (fingers, wrist, arm, shoulder, etc.). The use of devices which assist in determining distances over 10 meters , such as range finders and GPS devices are prohibited. Measuring devices such as a tape measure may be carried and used to determine distances 10 meters and less for the purpose of rules enforcement.
As I read this, you should be allowed to carry a string to use as a wind sock, or a weather vane, or an actual wind sock. There really is no need to pull out the grass.


There is no need to not allow someone to pull out the grass. What advantage does one gain by throwing grass into the wind over someone who brings string?
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Thumber
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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree its BS, but it is just another loophole in the rules, more than a conscious effort by the rule drafters to penalize a player for testing the wind.

That said, i don't really buy that a player throwing grass gets any more beta than the guy who jus stands there and feels the wind.

I think the grass rippers do it more out of habit than as a way of gaining info
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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We'd better start up a special, exclusive club for Grass Rippers. We can have numbers and t-shirts.
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Jefrey A. Brother
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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thumber wrote:
I agree its BS, but it is just another loophole in the rules, more than a conscious effort by the rule drafters to penalize a player for testing the wind.

That said, i don't really buy that a player throwing grass gets any more beta than the guy who jus stands there and feels the wind.

I think the grass rippers do it more out of habit than as a way of gaining info


This is not a loop hole.
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Thumber
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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jefrey A. Brother wrote:
Thumber wrote:
I agree its BS, but it is just another loophole in the rules, more than a conscious effort by the rule drafters to penalize a player for testing the wind.

That said, i don't really buy that a player throwing grass gets any more beta than the guy who jus stands there and feels the wind.

I think the grass rippers do it more out of habit than as a way of gaining info


This is not a loop hole.


My point was i don't believe the drafters of the rule did so with the intention that people be penalized for throwing a pinch of turf in the air.
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burjwahzeh
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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jefrey A. Brother wrote:
Anyone who uses the dirt to take the moisture off their hands would fall into the same BS "ruling".
No. You're specifically allowed to prevent slipping. You aren't damaging anything.
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