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Thumber
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:23 am    Post subject: Changes coming for 2013 Reply with quote

Got this off the pdga site

http://www.pdga.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=36529

Full new rules here http://conraddamon.com/pdga/2013/rules2013.html

The 2013 edition of the PDGA Rules represents a significant rewrite of the 2011 revision.
While most of the significant changes are structural in nature, there are some new concepts
being introduced as well as minor to moderate changes to actual rules. No major changes to
the rules of play have been made.

Restructure
-----------

The rules have been restructured to flow from basic to complex in an effort to improve the
flow and to make it easier for both beginning and advanced players to find what they are
looking for. Previously, all rules of play were gathered into a single section (803). Those
rules have now been split into "Basic Rules of Play" (intended especially for new players),
and then "The Lie" and "The Throw" which are more comprehensive and mostly handle problem
scenarios. In general, rules are presented in chronological order based on what happens
during play. As a side effect of the restructuring, the rules have been renumbered.

New Stuff
---------

There is a new section called "Application of the Rules" which gathers together the
procedures related to enforcement of the rules. Those procedures were formerly detailed
as part of each rule.

Position vs Lie: The concept of a disc's position - the spot it occupies on the playing
surface - has been separated from the lie (which is marked relative to the position). Previously,
those were two separate meanings of the single term "lie".

The section that was previously called "Playing the Stipulated Course" has been expanded,
reformulated, and renamed "Misplay".

New sections have been added for discretionary and experimental rules. Discretionary rules
can be invoked by the TD without an exemption from the PDGA. So far, the two-meter rule is
the only discretionary rule. Experimental rules are suggested variations that still require
an exemption from the PDGA.

Changes
-------

Definitions added: Approximate Position, Falling Putt, In-bounds, Position, Previous Lie, Re-throw,
Tee Line

Definitions removed: Completion of a Round, Fairway, Thrower, Two meter rule

Only one witness is required for a violation that results in a warning. Confirmation from a
second person is required for a violation that results in a penalty throw. If a throw is
subject to more than one violation, the one with the most severe penalty is applied. For example,
a throw from an illegal stance that goes OB is penalized for being OB. Ties are broken by
chronological order of the violations. For example, a throw that goes OB and then crosses
the wrong side of a mandatory is OB.

The 30-second clock (excessive time) now starts when you reach your disc, rather than after
you mark it, since a disc may not be marked. You can no longer stand over your disc holding
your mini for an indefinite amount of time.

Carrying an illegal disc is no longer punishable by itself. You have to throw it for there to
be a penalty. The same goes for an illegal device. You are allowed to use a towel or pad on
a lie. GPS devices are no longer disallowed.

"The thrown disc establishes a position where it first comes to rest." That is an important concept
which provides a basis for many other rules. Once a position has been established, it remains even if
the disc moves, no matter how that happens. The following rules are now related to establishing
position: disc above/below ground, broken disc, and disc in water or foliage.

The disc on the playing surface is now the primary way to mark the lie. The use of a mini is
presented as an alternative.

The thrower cannot call or second a stance violation. That closes the self-called falling putt
loophole. You are now allowed to retrieve a disc after a stance violation (the excessive time
rule still applies of course). There is no longer a three-second limit on calling a stance
violation. All calls must be made promptly, as noted in "Application of the Rules".

A few exemptions have been added to the interference rules: interference to prevent injury
or to prevent (with the thrower's consent) a disc from becoming lost is allowed.

The two-meter rule has been moved to "Discretionary Rules".

"Playing from Another Player's Lie" is now an "Incorrect Lie" misplay, meaning there's just
one penalty throw instead of two. The player whose disc was moved handles it the same as the
disc being moved for any other reason, and replaces it to its approximate position.

The entire group must assist in the search for a lost disc. Whoever starts the clock has to
tell the group that it has started.

You can no longer throw back across a mandatory line after having made the mandatory.
There's no longer a default drop zone. If the Director has not designated a drop zone, go
to the previous lie.

A scorecard is late after 30 rather than 25 minutes.
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Last edited by Thumber on Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:27 am; edited 1 time in total
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Jefrey A. Brother
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
You can no longer throw back across a mandatory line after having made the mandatory.


What kind of scenario would have to happen that you would even want to "throw back across" a mando?
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Thumber
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jefrey A. Brother wrote:
Quote:
You can no longer throw back across a mandatory line after having made the mandatory.


What kind of scenario would have to happen that you would even want to "throw back across" a mando?


Something totally odd. All I can think is some ridiculous dogleg where coming back through could let you set up to attack the green somehow
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The entire group must assist in the search for a lost disc. Whoever starts the clock has to tell the group that it has started.


This one's got chaos written all over it. Who's in charge of starting the clock? If no one starts the clock, then what?
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Thumber
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jefrey A. Brother wrote:
Quote:
The entire group must assist in the search for a lost disc. Whoever starts the clock has to tell the group that it has started.


This one's got chaos written all over it. Who's in charge of starting the clock? If no one starts the clock, then what?


Then it starts when someone finally says "Dude its lost. You better re-shoot".....unfortunately

I find this to be one of the least observed and respected rules
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
New sections have been added for discretionary and experimental rules. Discretionary rules can be invoked by the TD without an exemption from the PDGA. So far, the two-meter rule is the only discretionary rule. Experimental rules are suggested variations that still require an exemption from the PDGA.


If "the two-meter rule is the only discretionary rule" I wonder why they would make a seperate section all by itself? I wonder if they are thinking about adding more "discretionary rules".

Experimental rules. What would be an example of an experimental rule, I wonder?
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Thumber
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jefrey A. Brother wrote:
Quote:
New sections have been added for discretionary and experimental rules. Discretionary rules can be invoked by the TD without an exemption from the PDGA. So far, the two-meter rule is the only discretionary rule. Experimental rules are suggested variations that still require an exemption from the PDGA.


If "the two-meter rule is the only discretionary rule" I wonder why they would make a seperate section all by it self? I wonder if they are thinking about adding more "discretionary rules".

Experimental rules. What would be an example of an experimental rule, I wonder?


Indian Leg Wrestling to decide a playoff comes to mind.
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Jefrey A. Brother
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thumber wrote:
Jefrey A. Brother wrote:
Quote:
New sections have been added for discretionary and experimental rules. Discretionary rules can be invoked by the TD without an exemption from the PDGA. So far, the two-meter rule is the only discretionary rule. Experimental rules are suggested variations that still require an exemption from the PDGA.


If "the two-meter rule is the only discretionary rule" I wonder why they would make a seperate section all by it self? I wonder if they are thinking about adding more "discretionary rules".

Experimental rules. What would be an example of an experimental rule, I wonder?


Indian Leg Wrestling to decide a playoff comes to mind.


That's why LNF isn't PDGA...that and other reasons, but that's the big one.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Carrying an illegal disc is no longer punishable by itself. You have to throw it for there to be a penalty.


Wonder why this changed? If you can't throw it, why carry it in your bag?
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Thumber
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think they are examining more discretionary rules around drop zones
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The rules have been restructured to flow from basic to complex in an effort to improve the flow and to make it easier for both beginning and advanced players to find what they are looking for. Previously, all rules of play were gathered into a single section (803). Those rules have now been split into "Basic Rules of Play" (intended especially for new players)...


This reminds me of Bourgie talking about the fact that the PDGA writes the rules for DG. It is the governing body for the game, but it doesn't own it.

I hope they don't use the term "new players" for their "Basic Rules of Play". I would think these are the type of rules that would good for LNF or other "club" type events, where it's competitive but friendly. Maybe I should write my own rules. laughing Not happening.
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Thumber
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jefrey A. Brother wrote:
Quote:
The rules have been restructured to flow from basic to complex in an effort to improve the flow and to make it easier for both beginning and advanced players to find what they are looking for. Previously, all rules of play were gathered into a single section (803). Those rules have now been split into "Basic Rules of Play" (intended especially for new players)...


This reminds me of Bourgie talking about the fact that the PDGA writes the rules for DG. It is the governing body for the game, but it doesn't own it.

I hope they don't use the term "new players" for their "Basic Rules of Play". I would think these are the type of rules that would good for LNF or other "club" type events, where it's competitive but friendly. Maybe I should write my own rules. laughing Not happening.


World SnapChing League™ Rules of
SnapChing
© 2009 Mike Williams & Matt Metcalf
1. Play by Rules of SnapChing as the TD (Tournament
Director) amends. The TD’s rulings prevail. You may
call the TD to rule.
2. The TD may eject you if you act rude, play unsafe or
unfair, damage anything except grass or weeds or by
throwing, or fail to throw when the TD says.
3. In these rules, “throw” = release (not drop) a WSLapproved
disc into air by hand during your play, and at
that instant:
· Touch your lie and nothing closer to the target.
· Don’t touch outofbounds.
· Position your body to least displace things attached
to the ground except grass and weeds; and already
try to replace every other such thing you’ve moved.
· Your lie’s targetward
edge is marked.
4. At the “start” or “restart” signal, throw from your lie (at
“start,” it’s your first tee). Then find your new lie and
throw from it, etc., correctly hitting each target in series
until you end your play by hitting your final target.
5. Your group throws from its first tee in scorecard order.
Then whoever’s lie is farthest from the target throws
next. On later tees, low scorer on the prior target
throws first, secondlow
next, etc..
6. Your throw cancels your lie, and creates your new lie
on the ground and atop any object or pile that’s directly
above and touching that spot of ground.
7. The new lie that your throw creates is a 1’wide
circle
centered below where the disc first rests. (Rest = stay
still two seconds.) Except: if the disc first rests as a
result of hitting the right target correctly, your lie is your
next tee; if the whole disc first rests on or above outofbounds,
or crosses a nofly
line without resting earlier,
your lie is your justcancelled
lie; if you can’t throw at
all without injury, your lie is the closest 1’wide
circle
where you can.
8. If you release a disc into air by hand in a way that’s not
a throw, your lie doesn’t change.
9. If your lie is lost, your groupmates deem where your
thrown disc first rests.
10. Your thrown disc is deemed to rest at the instant its
thrown energy ends in water, or a live vertebrate alters
its flight, or the disc breaks.
11. You score 1 each time you release (not drop) a disc
into air by hand during your play. When you correctly
hit a target, record your score. Low score wins.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those are the worst set of rules. The worst.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
A few exemptions have been added to the interference rules: interference to prevent injury or to prevent (with the thrower's consent) a disc from becoming lost is allowed.


Ummm, really?!? How does this work?
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Thumber
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jefrey A. Brother wrote:
Those are the worst set of rules. The worst.


What? You don't find them fairer and easier than the "conventional" rules?
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nope.

{thumbsup Old Man's new Kanata sign.}
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jefrey A. Brother wrote:
Quote:
Carrying an illegal disc is no longer punishable by itself. You have to throw it for there to be a penalty.


Wonder why this changed? If you can't throw it, why carry it in your bag?


I think they were trying to follow bolf rules with illegal clubs. They should limit the numbers of disc like bolf does for clubs in my opinion.

Maybe they do already. I don't know the rules let alone keep up with the changes let alone UNDERSTAND the changes. ie. optional re-throw.


Last edited by John Pytel on Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jefrey A. Brother wrote:
Quote:
A few exemptions have been added to the interference rules: interference to prevent injury or to prevent (with the thrower's consent) a disc from becoming lost is allowed.


Ummm, really?!? How does this work?


Quote:
804.03 Interference
...

G.Altering the course of a thrown disc with the consent of the thrower in order to prevent the disc from becoming lost is not punishable interference. Any disc whose course is altered for that reason is considered to be a lost disc.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
803.03 Misplay

A.It is the responsibility of the player to play the course correctly. Before play begins, players shall attend the players' meeting and learn about any special conditions that may exist on the course, including extra holes, alternate teeing areas, alternate hole placements, out-of-bounds areas, mandatories, and drop zones.

B.A misplay has occurred if the player has failed to complete every hole on the course correctly and in the proper order, or has played from an incorrect lie for any throw.

C.In instances where the misplay rules affect players within a group differently, the group shall remain together while a hole is being completed by some of the group in order to verify scoring and rules compliance.

D.In instances where a misplay is discovered after the player has turned in the scorecard, the misplay shall not be replayed and the player shall receive a two-throw penalty for the misplay.

E.A misplay is not a stance violation, nor is it a practice throw.

F.A player who deliberately misplays the course to gain competitive advantage shall be penalized in accordance with Section 3.3 of the Competition Manual.

G.Types of misplay:

1.Incorrect Lie. The player has:

A.Teed off from a teeing area that is not the correct teeing area for the current hole; or,

B.Thrown from a lie established by a disc other than the thrown disc; or,

C.Played an out-of-bounds disc as if it were in-bounds; or,

D.Thrown from a lie established by a previous throw which passed a mandatory on the wrong side.

If no subsequent throws have been made after the misplayed throw, the player shall continue play from the correct lie and be assessed a one-throw penalty for the misplay. If an additional throw or throws have been made after the misplayed throw, the player shall complete the hole being played and be assessed a two-throw penalty for the misplay.

2.Wrong Target. The player has holed out on a target that is not the target for the hole being played. If no subsequent throw has been made, play continues from the resulting lie. If the target is a basket target, the disc is above the playing surface, and play proceeds according to 802.02.C. If the player has teed off on the next hole, a two-throw penalty shall be added to the score for the misplayed hole.

3.Failure To Hole Out. The player has teed off on a hole without having holed out on the previous hole. The score for the misplayed hole shall be the number of throws made, plus one for holing out, plus two penalty throws for the misplay. The player must not actually hole out on the previous hole. Intentionally failing to hole out constitutes withdrawal from competition.

4.Non-Sequential Play. The player has completed play on a hole in the wrong order. The player shall proceed to play the course in its proper order. Regardless of the number of holes skipped or played in the wrong order during the round, a total of two penalty throws shall be added to the player's total score for the misplay. The score earned from any completed hole shall stand, and any completed hole shall not be replayed.

5.Missed Hole Due To Late Arrival. The player has failed to play a hole due to late arrival. The player receives a score of par plus four for the hole. See Section 1.5 B of the Competition Manual.

6.Omitted Hole. The round has been completed, and the player has neglected to play a hole. The hole is scored the same as a hole missed due to late arrival.

7.Incorrect Hole. The player has completed play on a hole that is not part of the course for that round, in place of a hole that is part of the course for the round. The hole shall stand as played, and two penalty throws shall be added to the player's total score.

8.Extra Hole. The player has completed play on a hole that is not part of the course for that round. Two penalty throws shall be added to the player's total score. Throws made on the extra hole are not counted.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Pytel wrote:
I don't know the rules let alone keep up with the changes let alone UNDERSTAND the changes. ie. optional re-throw.


Quote:
803.02 Optional Relief and Optional Re-throw
A.Optional Relief. A player may elect at any time to take optional relief. The lie may then be relocated to a new lie which is no closer to the target, and is on the line of play. One penalty throw shall be added to the player's score.

B.Optional Re-throw. A player may elect at any time to re-throw from the previous lie. The original throw plus one penalty throw shall be counted in the player's score.

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