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Jefrey A. Brother
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:14 pm    Post subject: PDGA.com Rules Conversations Reply with quote

Altering the Teepad

Quote:
Here's a question that was asked in a recent tournament, though it never came into play.

The tee on a temporary hole was a rubber pad, marked with flags at the front corners. The morning after a rain, it was rather slick.

A player asked if he would have the option of folding the rubber pad out of the way and teeing off on the dry ground beneath it. He didn't do it, he just asked.

Which left me thinking. You can't build a lie but can you reduce one?

(My other thought was that it would be a bad idea, since players doing so would wear holes in the ground under the pad, making the pad uneven for future players).

Thoughts?

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Thumber
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMO the TD could make this call to everyone but there is no way a card could make this decision on their own. If they did they should be penalized accordingly. You get 10 feet back from the line.
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Jefrey A. Brother
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The best rule I heard that this would fall under was:

Quote:
803.02 Teeing Off
A. Play shall begin on each hole with the player throwing from within the teeing area. When the disc is released, at least one of the player's supporting points must be in contact with the surface of the teeing area, and all the player's supporting points must be within the teeing area. If a tee pad is provided, all supporting points must be on the pad at the time of release, unless the director has specified a modified teeing area for safety reasons. If no tee pad is provided, all supporting points at the time of release must be within an area encompassed by the front line of the teeing area and two lines perpendicular to and extending back three meters from each end of the front line. The front line of the teeing area includes the outside edges of the two tee markers. Running up from behind the teeing area before the disc is released is permitted. Following through in front of the teeing area is permitted provided there is no supporting point contact outside the teeing area when the disc is released.


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Jefrey A. Brother
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Courtesy Violation - Quiet while putting

Quote:
In a tourney our group was teeing off and we were congratulating a fellow player on a nice drive, (not shouting) when someone on an adjacent fairway who was setting up for a putt (we didn't notice them, they were obscured through trees and we were paying attention to our fairway not theirs) when we were warned to be quiet while they were putting. Of course, we didn't move until their attempt was made, but it seemed a little much for us to be paying attention to them on our own teepad. Would this be a courtesy violation? (the teepad on our hole was relatively close to the pin on the next hole, but had light brush and trees in the way). Is it not proper to react to a nice drive, putt, ace etc.?
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Thumber
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jefrey A. Brother wrote:
Courtesy Violation - Quiet while putting

Quote:
In a tourney our group was teeing off and we were congratulating a fellow player on a nice drive, (not shouting) when someone on an adjacent fairway who was setting up for a putt (we didn't notice them, they were obscured through trees and we were paying attention to our fairway not theirs) when we were warned to be quiet while they were putting. Of course, we didn't move until their attempt was made, but it seemed a little much for us to be paying attention to them on our own teepad. Would this be a courtesy violation? (the teepad on our hole was relatively close to the pin on the next hole, but had light brush and trees in the way). Is it not proper to react to a nice drive, putt, ace etc.?


The person putting should learn to putt instead of worrying about ambient noise. Other sports don't worry about the noise much. Look at Olympic Track and Field....especially the field events. Same thing as driving / putting. The javelin thrower doesn't wait for the crowd to calm to quiet. They just do their thing.

You could almost issue a courtesy violation to the putter for being a bonehead.
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Jefrey A. Brother
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The way that DG courses are designed sometimes, you could be 4 holes ahead of someone and be 50' away from them. I think it's a bit of a stretch to be completely aware of EVERYONE within a 50 m radius.
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Jefrey A. Brother
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm going to start giving warnings to those who are walking around in orange shirts and within 100 m, and anywhere in my peripheral vision while I'm doing anything, including writing scores.
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andros
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jefrey A. Brother wrote:
I'm going to start giving warnings to those who are walking around in orange shirts and within 100 m, and anywhere in my peripheral vision while I'm doing anything, including writing scores.


One does need to concentrate when writing down scores, especially when adding them up. sly wink
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Jefrey A. Brother
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DROT above 2m (Disc Resting On Top)

Quote:
Without getting into the course design issues or whether or not you like it how would you rule this?

Some courses have holes that are mounted higher than usual. In some cases the top of the basket is greater than 2 meters above the playing surface. Some are on tall poles, some on a rock structure, some hanging baskets.

Say a disc comes to rest on top of the basket. If the 2 meter penalty is in effect would you incur a 2 meter penalty for a DROT (disc resting on top)?

I could see if the basket was mounted on a rock structure that could be called the playing surface but what if the basket was hanging or on a tall pole?

How was this dealt with at the High Bridge worlds "tree hole"?
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Thumber
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jefrey A. Brother wrote:
DROT above 2m (Disc Resting On Top)

Quote:
Without getting into the course design issues or whether or not you like it how would you rule this?

Some courses have holes that are mounted higher than usual. In some cases the top of the basket is greater than 2 meters above the playing surface. Some are on tall poles, some on a rock structure, some hanging baskets.

Say a disc comes to rest on top of the basket. If the 2 meter penalty is in effect would you incur a 2 meter penalty for a DROT (disc resting on top)?

I could see if the basket was mounted on a rock structure that could be called the playing surface but what if the basket was hanging or on a tall pole?

How was this dealt with at the High Bridge worlds "tree hole"?


You should never be penalized for this
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Jefrey A. Brother
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rules on Black Aces

Quote:
Question for all you super brains.
This past weekend at a tourney I had an amazingly bad tee shot on 16 kick off a tree and go into the basket of 15. Other than the 20 bucks paid out to the other 4 people on my card for 51, do I get penalized for essentially holing out on the wrong hole?


Later in the thread...

Quote:
A couple of years ago in a tourney in Conifer Co 2 players in a same group hit aces on hole 7. As they were walking up to retrieve their aces a drive from hole 8 kicked off a tree and into 7's basket for a black ace putting 3 aces discs in the basket at the same time. pretty cool.
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Paul Bourgeois
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jefrey A. Brother wrote:
Courtesy Violation - Quiet while putting

Quote:
In a tourney our group was teeing off and we were congratulating a fellow player on a nice drive, (not shouting) when someone on an adjacent fairway who was setting up for a putt (we didn't notice them, they were obscured through trees and we were paying attention to our fairway not theirs) when we were warned to be quiet while they were putting. Of course, we didn't move until their attempt was made, but it seemed a little much for us to be paying attention to them on our own teepad. Would this be a courtesy violation? (the teepad on our hole was relatively close to the pin on the next hole, but had light brush and trees in the way). Is it not proper to react to a nice drive, putt, ace etc.?


Okay, picking this one apart:
Quote:
801.01 G. A player violating a courtesy rule may be warned by any
affected player, even if from another group, or by an official, with
all players of the group advised of the warning. The player shall be
assessed one penalty throw for each subsequent courtesy violation of
any type in the same round. Repeated violations of courtesy rules may
result in disqualification in accordance with section 804.05.


So, there is nothing wrong with someone not on your card issuing a courtesy violation.

So, what is discourteous conduct?

Quote:
801.01 B. Players should take care not to produce any distracting
noises or any potential visual distractions for other players who are
throwing. Examples of discourteous actions are: shouting, cursing,
freestyling, slapping course equipment, throwing out of turn, throwing
or kicking golf bags, throwing minis, and advancing on the fairway
beyond the away player. Shouting at an appropriate time to warn someone
in danger of being struck by a disc is not a violation of courtesy.


All of these are examples of things that you should actually realize you are doing, and that any human being should have control over (missing a long shot is no excuse to curse or shout). Yes, the euphoria following an ace on your card is actually a courtesy violation if it involves shouting and becomes a distraction to another player.

In the example above, however, the author specifies that shouting was not a factor. Issuing congratulations is not on that list. Unless these people were doing some sort of foolish victory dance (I equate this with distractive freestyling), or making noise suitable for a football crowd (loud clapping or stomping), the "putting party" has over-extended their authority.

Sadly, disc golf's 30-second rule does not allow this player to wait out the teepad activity. That is the rule most at fault here, IMO. If it didn't exist, that player could simply wait out the "commotion".
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